Topic: The forsaken Respun into the World?

[Bob_Dole]

I've heard the theory before that since the forsaken have "gone over to the darkside" that their souls are no longer a part of the pattern

And since the wheel spits souls back into the pattern would it remake new souls to replace the lost forsaken?

And if so, who are the characters that would rival the forsaken we already know that nynaeve can defeat moghedian and that alivia surpasses nynaeve (Maybe a match for Lanfear?), but that would still leave several other possibilities. Maybe Logain or maztrim taim could equal the likes of sammael or asmodean?

This could be completely harebrained but maybe its a possability. i would need to read the books more carefully to find out why only these few are called the Forsaken maybe it just because they stood highest among the DO's servants in power or maybe they were willing to give up more than most, say their spot in the Wheel of time.

[Todd]

Well, I don't think there is anything saying that the Forsaken are never re-spun out. In fact I am pretty sure Ishamael has stated something far different when he was trying to turn Rand. Something about facing him a thousand times.

Taim is clearly a Darkfriend, and is quite possibly one of the Forsaken, so he may be a bad example. Logain on the other hand was supposedly not that powerful, the big sa'angreal outside of Carhien would have burned him out, according to an Aes Sedai. I do think that Logain's power was possibly under estimated by the Aes Sedai or RJ later decided to make him more powerful. Although I don't think we have a clear idea of how powerful he is right now. Narishima is supposed to be the powerful one, if I remember correctly.

[Bob_Dole]

Really i don't know yet if taim is a darkfriend or just extremely ambitious. I think he might have ferreted out a couple darkfriends and used that to get them to attack Rand. maybe he thought with the black tower behind him he could win the last, battle it seems that Taim being a darkfriend would be to easy a solution. Just a theory but with the way These books have been going I'm not gonna fully commit to taim being a darkfriend until it comes right out and says it. at Far medding one of the darkfriends said something to the degree that Moradin didn't seem like he cared as much that they killed him more that they acquired his belongings, probably looking for the choaden kal or however u spell the link to the giant sa"angreal. While Taim was very adamant on having them kill Rand.
But i completely agree with the logain part. RJ has definitely allowed for characters in the books to misinterpret.

[rhodric]

Well when talking about Rahvin, RJ said that even though Rand baelfired him back to the french revolution (i invented the last sentence), it wasn't the death of Rahvin's soul, and he could be spun out again.  I think that the fact that The Lord of the Grave can pull souls out of the slip stream is proof that they aren't consigned to oblivion.  If the soul still exists, it can be spun out.  If all that isn't enough for you, consider this.  RJ has said that the Light's champion has been turned to the Shadow in the past.  Rand/LTT is actually a hero of the horn as well as the Dragon, and he's still around, so serving the shadow does not destroy your soul.  You might say that being turned forcibly doesn't count, but I think when you add everything up it points to the fact that the Forsaken before and after are still part of the Pattern. 

Verin is the one who told Rand that Logain would be consumed by the Male Choedan Kal.  We've got to consider this though.  The oath against lying, it can be circumvented if you BELIEVE you are telling the truth.  Verin is a tricky creature, we don't really know her agenda or what she really knows, but how much does she really know about saidin, or the Choedan Kal? Seriously? That was precleansing though, so it could in fact be that resisting both the taint and the flow of saidin could have destroyed Logain, but I don't think so.  Rand and Asmodean both grabbed it and neither was consumed.  Asmodean is weaker than Rand is now, and Rand was a lot weaker in the power back then.  Really I think Logain is pretty strong.  He can't match Rand in raw strength, and we don't know how strong Taim really is, but on the evidence, Logain is pretty powerful.  It takes six Aes Sedai to shield him in Salidar.  The one time we know he tried to break through the shield, he almost succeeded, and Siuan thinks with 5 holding the buffer, he would have.  Six can hold Rand too, or at least they could in Lord of Chaos.  Logain's comments in KoD seem to indicate that a gap has opened up between them as far as raw strength, but really, I think the only two non forsaken who can match him over overwhelm him unaided are Alivia and Taim. 

Taim is so a Sithlord...er I mean Darkfriend

"Remember that old saying? Let the Lord of Chaos rule." 

[Bob_Dole]

"Remember that old saying? Let the Lord of Chaos rule." 
Well while "let the Lord of Chaos rule was an order from the DO is was also part of a childrens game and you never know what people have stored away in their heads with these books. But yes i am like 90% certain Taim is either one of the forsaken or a darkfriend in the least i need some deffanite proof for me to lay this to rest.

But i'll need to read where RJ said that even though Rand Balefired RHavin he didn't destroy his soul i kinda thought that was the whole purpose of balfire. and the wuestion after that is wouldn/t the DO revive him if it was possible to bring back one of his most powerful servants for 3,000 years.

And thank you for the part About Logain. I guess i would put him to match Aginor mabye or damandred. But so far i can think of four woman who are at the Forsakens level of power. Nynaeve, Alivia, The seafolk Apprentice, and the old lady with the rebels of salidar what ever her names is. if there was another please remind me but there are five female forsaken and one more would balance it out. Or mabye one is just gonna get iced before TG

[Soynar trestfal]

Remember what Shadar Haran says at one point, to whats her name. Halima when she is reborn.
It goes something along the lines of.

"At least it is better then what happened to Rhavin, even the GreatLord cannot bring someone back from Balefire."

That's not exact but it is more or less what he says about it. And remember Balefire "sears" the person from the pattern. Makes it so they never existed and almost threatens to destroy the age lace.