Topic: Padan Fain

[Fyonah]

Well... one question I'm wondering about after just reading the passage about Fain in the Tower, he just stole the ruby hilted dagger.
So far he's always been called "the hound of the dark one" but after that part I wonder whether he's even more than that. What do you think - will Rand battle Padan Fain in the last battle? Or did it happen already, in the books following Fires of Heaven?

[Todd]

Padan Fain was consumed by Mordeth in Shadar Logoth, so yes he is more then just the "hound of the dark one." He is a mix of the two, though no longer controlled by the Dark One.

Anything that's happened between Rand and Padan Fain, I'd call skirmishes, no all out battles yet. They've come close though.

[Fyonah]

Yes, I remember that, too, but I was wondering if he might even carry some of the Dark One within himself which might manifest into Shai'tan once all seals are broken. If the Dragon needs to manifest by rebirth, maybe the Dark One must do something similar. The following part made me wonder about Fain:

His mind skittered away from memories of what had been done to him in the pit. He had been distilled there, remade. But later, in Aridhol, he had been reborn. Reborn to smite old enemies and new.
He could feel something else as he stalked the empty night hallways of the Tower, a thing that was his, stolen from him. A sharper desire drew him at this moment than his longing for al'Thor's death, or the Tower's destruction, or even revenge against his ancient foe. A hunger to be whole.

Later on:

He had been a darkfriend once, but he was beyond that, now. Beyond it, above it. Something different. Something more.

Most of that is about Mordeth inside Padan Fain. But the thing of being distilled and remade, along with the part about "revenge against his ancient foe" and the last three sentences made me wonder if that's really the end of it. Was Lews Therin Telamon an ancient foe of Mordeth? Or who else could be meant with "ancient foe"?
That Fain and Rand didn't fight each other so far might be hinting at it, too.

But let's ask this differently: Did anyone wonder so far -how- the Dark One would finally appear in the Last Battle? Is there any scrap in the books I still have to read yet (6 to 11) which gives away anything about it?

[Parin Lament]

Don't to give away too much, so don't read if you don't want some minor spoilers, but later in the series(can't recall which book) a character called Shadar Haran(I think that's the name, been a while) is introduced. He is a Myrddraal with uncommon authority, issuing commands to Forsaken and exacting punishment on some who disobey, and it is heavily implied(though never stated outright) that he is some kind of avatar of the Dark One.

[Fyonah]

Ah, all right. Thanks, Stefan.

[Garrison Bain]

I have to admit that the question of how the Dark One will manifest himself is a good one.  Although, I don't think Padan Fain will be the key...

It's too bad you haven't yet read Winter's Heart.  Something happens at the very end of that book that might have an influence on Padan Fain and Mordeth inside of him.  A very very important influence!  (hehehe...ROAFO)

But, that's a discussion for another thread, i think. 

-Garrison Bain-

[davids4250]

Fain is feared even by the myrddraal.  As far as I know, the only other being they fear is the Dark One.  It seems to me that Fain gets more powerful as the seals weaken.  I think he is/will be taken over by the DO and the Final Battle will be between Fain (the Dark One) and Rand.  Fain has always said that he and Rand would meet, and I think that will be it.

[Todd]

I am not so sure about Padan Fain getting more powerful when you read what the original Mordeth did to a whole city. Shadar Haran is the DO's vessel outside of Shayol Ghul, I think it is more likely that it is the DO's vessel during the last battle if the DO manifests itself physically.

[Ishrahm]

This post may contain spoilers for people who have not read all of WoT, Dune, or Mistborn.

I would have to agree with Todd.  Shadar Haran is the avatar of the DO, so I'm fairly positive that if he manifests that will be how.  Fain on the other hand...he's like Paul from Dune.  Where Paul wasn't the Kwisats Haderach (sp.) he was something different.  Fain is the same idea, in my opinion.  He's something outside the archtypical good vs. evil battle between the Creator and DO.  I don't think either of them had anticipated Fain.  And quite frankly, I am awash with excitement to see what part his "otherness" will play in the end.  I see an interesting correlation between Fain and Vin from Sanderson's Mistborn.  She had that "otherness" quality as well.  Not quite the Hero, but still "special", especially since she was Preservations tool against Ruin.

Although Vin was naturally inclined toward good, and Fain was "claimed" by evil.  Still, I've been noticing these similarities in a lot of the stories I read.  Once upon a time I would have thought this "cheap" on the authors' part, but now I just think it is neat.

Anyway, sorry for the ramble.

[Ishrahm]

Oh, and as a side note, I do not think that the DO could claim Fain if he tried.  Mordeth's evil was not of the Dark One, it was something else.  The evil in all of us, I would think.  Our ability to turn evil whilst trying to do good.  Evident in the corruption and turning of Aridhol on the "softer" Nations and eventually itself.

I think the Myrdraal fearing Fain is a hint.  They can't influence or defend against his power.  Plus Fain holds the Shadow and Light in contempt.  Reinforcing his "otherness" and status as an evil outside of the traditional war.

Sorry, again, for another ramble.

[davids4250]

Good points, especially about Fain holding the Dark in contempt.  I still have to wonder what role he has, though.