Topic: The Platform War

[Archelous]

As announced at E3 (Or whats left of it) about a month ago, Sony piped up they would forever discontinuing their 20 gig PS3 (US retail at $499) and putting the 60 gig model at that price, later in November they will be releasing the what was thought Asian-only 80 gig model at the price the 60 gig first debuted at ($599 US) packaged also with the game Motorstorm. I bought the PS3 in March (60 gig model), and I've got a lot of questions from friends asking if I'm upset about that, not really. But also not the point in this post.

Yesterday (06/06/07) Microsoft announced they would be slashing the MSRP (Manufacturer Suggested Retail Price) of the Xbox 360 by $50 US on it's Premium model ($20 on it's 'Core' model and $30 on it's 'Elite': Link) to coincide with the release of Madden '08

The Nintendo Wii on the other hand remains firm (as of now) at the regular $249 market.

As a gamer, and I know some people here are as well, or not as a gamer I'd like to know:

1a) If you are a gamer, do you think the price of these systems are justified? The cost of a system has always lost a company money in the making of the hardware, which they regain during profits from selling the games, keep in mind.

1b) If you aren't a gamer, do you think this hype and the money shelled out to this industry is at all logical, and would you ever be tempted to purchase a said system? (The Xbox 360 has an HD-DVD add on that is still a bit below the going price of a High Def DVD player, and the PS3's Blu-Ray player is still remarkably lower than most of the standalone players, the Wii will also play DVD's, but that's a little out of the question for a standalone player)

2a) Which systems do you own if you are a gamer? Would you be tempted to purchase any of the others? What would make you go for the purchase? Games available? Games promised? Price cuts? Online capabilities?

2b) If you were to decide to jump into the gaming world, what would be your choice in system? Would it be some of the integrated stand-alone things the console offers? (Wii offers the ability to purchase and play old NES, SNES, SEGA games through virtual console. Microsoft has XBOX Live which lets you download new add-ons for existing games and online play as well as movie rentals through the network, not to mention LIVE arcade games. Sony offers movie trailer downloads, offbrand computer games such as FlOw, Calling all Cars, etc and integrates fully with the PSP and also allows you to play any PSX or PS2 game right off the bat)

3a) For the system(s) you own, how many games do you expect to purchase in the next year? In the next six months, do you have any games you know you'll purchase by name? Do you reserve games?

3b) If you don't own any system (Or if you do and the said game was coming out for another system) and you saw a game you thought looked interesting, would you be tempted to purchase the system it was out for (Or even go so far as to rent the system through a company like Blockbuster?)

As for me? I'm a hardcore gamer. I love the escape from reality and plunging myself into a massive dungeon, or a seemingly real firefight, or a derelict space compound teeming with demons and zombies.

I keep my computer upgraded as much as I need to, I own the PS3, Xbox 360, Nintendo Wii, over 230 titles spanning eleven systems, and I even buy those little collectors editions just so I can have the scaled replica sword or helmet.

As for my preference?

Right now, I've used my Xbox 360 for the most gaming time. It has the most selection of games right now (coming out a year earlier than it's competitors, I hope so), and the coming lineup this fall looks enticing.

My Wii, I've played seldom games on it, I own three or four, but I only break it out when I'm having people over and they want to play. I still haven't beaten Twilight Princess (The game I really bought the system for)

As for my PS3... I have the highest hopes for this system. Graphically on my tv, it's far more beautiful than the 360, but we could chalk that up to the HDMI cables, the Blu-Ray is a definite perk, as it holds about 6x more data than the regular DVD's the Xbox uses. It gives developers more freedom in the fact that all the units have a hard drive built in, so they can cache information on them (this gives problems on the 360 due to the fact it has a limited DVD space and the Core systems didn't come with a Hard drive). Not to mention, the lineup looks freakin amazing.

Alot of games now are coming multiplatform.

Looking at it, I'd usually opt for the PS3 one unless I read a review saying it played significantly worse on the PS3.

As for the Wii...

It's a beautiful design and idea, but I only see the good games coming directly from Nintendo.

Sad to say, if someone asked me what system to go for, I'd say this:

If you want something to play at parties, and trust your friends around an expensive tv, go with the Wii. It's easy to pick up, anyone can enjoy it.

If you have the money and want the experience (and have the tv to see the beauty), go for the PS3 hands down. With most games coming across multiplatform, you can get almost anything. The controller is a lot better to play with, it's incredibly light and recharges without AA batteries.

If you want an experience none the less and are just breaking into the gaming world, the 360 is a great choice. Microsoft has some solid games coming out and it also is showing it's a power performer in the industry

I'll quit here, but I'd love to hear everyones thoughts.

[Todd]

My opinions, not really going to answer the questions. If I answer any of them, so be it.

Wii - All it is, is a beefed up Gamecube hardware wise. The only decent games are minigames, and I hate those type of games. If you are an 80 year old grandma you'd probably enjoy Wii Sports. Overpriced for what it is.

PS3 - Not more powerful then the 360, and you pay a premium for the name. Right now Gears of War holds the graphics title, and nothing coming anytime soon on the PS3 even challenges it. UT 3 will probably better it since both are made by Epic, but it will be on the 360 as well and so far previews say it looks better on the 360.

Most of it's exclusive 3rd party franchises that made the Playstation system what it is are now  on the 360. By reviews and previews most of them play and look better on the 360. If you absolutely need Final Fantasy and Metal Gear Solid it is the only system that is getting them, as of right now. First party games for the PS3 are top notch, personally I never got into them but they review and sell well.

Aaron's eyes must be playing tricks on him. HDMI doesn't do squat for gaming unless you have a 1080P HDTV that doesn't accept a 1080p signal over Component or VGA. Since the PS3 is also a Blu Ray player they had to add it for movie playback.

Blu Ray is a nice addition if you want HD movies, but imo HD-DVD is the superior standard. This is mostly because it is the least DRMed of the 2, and it has the superior software package for options. Hoestly I really don't like either format as they are right now.

The standard Harddrive was a great move, and MS made a mistake not doing the same. It also allows you to run Linux on your PS3 if you want to use the PS3 as a subpar Linux box. The card readers are an ok addition if you'll actually use them. The Wireless network card is useless for gaming unless you like lag. The PS3 is also a very flexible multi-media box, more flexible then the 360 actually. Since I barely use the feature on the 360 I don't personally consider this a big deal since the PC is better then both in this regard.

One of the big things about the PS3 that bugs me is when the batteries die in your controller (BTW, I HATE THE SIXAXIS) you'll have to send it back to Sony to get the battery replaced. Your other option is to just buy a new controller. Awesome.

Right now it is priced at 499.99 for the 60 gig and 599.99 for the 80 gig. It will only be 599.99 as the 60 gig models sell out. WAY overpriced. There are 3 differences between the SKUs. One is harddrive size and the second is for a limited time the 80gig comes with Motorstorm. The last is the 80 gig PS3 has limited backwards compatibility. For the 80 gig Sony is going the 360 route and doing BC in software and not in hardware, meaning there isn't a PS2 built into every PS3 80gig model.

360 - Initial consoles were absolute junk, failed way to much. The problems are likely fixed now with the chipset redesign and the bigger heatsink. Both are designed to keep the heat down, and that was the 360s big problem. As old stock is bought up all 360s will come with an HDMI port. As I said it isn't a big deal for games, HDMI is more for the HD-DVD addon, because HDMI is a big deal for movies.

The Core system price wise is a complete rip-off if you go by accessory prices. To make a core a premium it costs more then the premium, a lot more. Accessories are overpriced, but they are now for all consoles so it is something you'll have to get used to. Like the PS3 the harddrive is upgradeable, but unlike the PS3 you just can't pick up any SATA notebook drive of the shelf. For the size MS offers they are way over priced. For the controllers you buy AA batteries, or buy the battery pack and be able to recharge your battery pack through the console. Batteries dead? No problem, just buy new ones. This makes it so that you don't have to send your controller back to MS so they can change your batteries for you.

Games wise, the 360 completely destroys both the PS3 and Wii combined, and will continue to do so for at least for the next year or more. Sony has responded to this by paying for timed exclusives in Haze and Unreal Tournment 3, both games will be on the 360 early next year.

Prices: Core 279.00 (WAY overpriced), Premium 349.99 (meh, should be 299.99 by now), and the Elite 449.99 (overpriced now since some Premiums on shelves now have HDMI also). Difference between the 3, Core no harddrive, wired controller and standard RCA cables. Premium, hd and standard cables, wireless controller, 20 gig harddrive and headset. Elite, 120 gig harddrive, wireless controller, headset and HDMI cable. You also need the Harddrive for Backward compatibility with the original Xbox, and not all games work. HDMI on the 360 is the 1.2 standard and not the 1.3 in the PS3, which will matter to audiophiles.

[Trelise Sedai]

I think the cost of the PS3 is excessive. I don't care if it sings, dances etc... Here it's retailing for a cool $999 - If I'm going to spend that much money, it's going to be on something worthwhile.

Oh and I have no idea about the other systems. As if I have time to play games anymore. :-(

[Todd]

I figured I might as well use this thread to talk about DVD, HD-DVD and Blu Ray. Since the PS3 is a Blu Ray player, not the cheapest one anymore but it makes up the majority of the players out there, and the 360 has a 179.99 HD-DVD addon. BTW, the HD-DVD addon also works on your PC, so if you don't have a 360 you can still buy and use it, you just have to buy the software to play it. Basically the same process you go through to play DVDs on your PC.

As far as games go, nothing on the PS3 so far wouldn't fit on DVD. They tried to claim it with Resistance but they padded the game to use more space, and it also used audio that wasn't compressed. My sense from audiophiles on this, they claim that this makes the sound better, which is most likely true for someone with a keen ear. However for 99.9% of people they're probably like children who will like anything better if it is in a McDonalds wrapper. The worst case scenario for a game is that you might have to switch discs. God forbid if you get some exercise switching discs every 15 to 20 hours.

Movie wise.

There seems to be a a lot of misinformation out there. Pro Blu Ray people like to say Blu Ray is better because it has more disc space, which isn't exactly true. Blu Ray can hold more information per layer then HD-DVD, but HD-DVD actually has more storage with a 50+ gig disc. Blu Ray is at 50 gigs right now. Think of layers as individual discs pressed together to make 1 big disc. 1 to 1 Blu Ray holds more information. However HD-DVD is a bit further along and is able to use more layers then Blu Ray.

Picture wise they are the same as long as the encoding process is the same. It also varies from studio to studio, Universal seems to be trying to do it on the cheap as of late. Early Blu Ray movies were really bad but they've improved a lot since then. Software wise, imo, HD-DVD has a clear advantage. The software it uses for extras on the disc just flatout has more options, it is better designed for the customer. It also doesn't help that the software for Blu Ray still isn't finished.

Price wise HD-DVD is the cheaper format, from prduction costs, to movie prices, to player prices. The cheapest Blu Ray player is 499.99 for the PS3 60 gig model and a stand alone player. HD-DVD cheapest standalone player is 299.99. By Christmas it is rumored the Wal-Mart will be selling a 199.99 standalone HD-DVD player. HD-DVD standalone players actually sell far better then Blu Ray standalone players, but the PS3 skews things into Blu Rays favor. Blu Ray sells more movies, but HD-DVD sells more per player.

Movie wise Blu Ray has the most of the support in Hollywood. In part because Sony owns a good chunk of it but mostly because Sony put in all the DRM that Hollywood wants. The only studio not making Blu Ray movies now or in the future is Universal. Warner puts puts movies on both, but seems to favor HD-DVD. The rest are all Blu-Ray. I may have missed a few studios, but I think that is about right. A bit of trvia, DivX had most of the movie studios at first as well, DVD still won, and unlike with VHS it wasn't because of porn. It wasn't also because the PS2, DivX had died before its release.

Both HD formats is a digital rights nightmare, and Blu Ray is worse then HD-DVD. HD-DVD allows for 3 managed copies, Blu Ray doesn't allow that at all. If you believe in fair use neither format is very enticing.  Both formats in the future will require HDMI with HDCP and will include ICT tags. HDMI is being pushed as the defacto standard because it allows movie studios to send encrypted data through the cable, so it is better for copy protection. The problem is many HDMI ports in HDTVs that are in living rooms today do not conform to HDCP standards. Mainly because the HDCP standard hasn't been finalized yet, or was just finalized recently. This is where the ICT tag comes in. If a TV does not conform to HDCP standards the ICT tag will downgrade movies from HD (720p, 1080i and 1080p) to standard definition (480i & 480p.) Thus forcing many people to buy new TVs so that they'll be able to watch their HD-DVD/Blu Ray movies in HD. Right now the ICT tag is not in current movies on sale now, but will be in the future.

DVDs, not HD and still outselling both HD formats by probably a million to 1.

[Archelous]

I knew Todd would jump in this one

Aaron's eyes must be playing tricks on him. HDMI doesn't do squat for gaming unless you have a 1080P HDTV that doesn't accept a 1080p signal over Component or VGA. Since the PS3 is also a Blu Ray player they had to add it for movie playback.

(Actually, did bite the bullet at purchase a Philips 42" 1080p Ambilight LCD this past summer)

The last is the 80 gig PS3 has limited backwards compatibility. For the 80 gig Sony is going the 360 route and doing BC in software and not in hardware, meaning there isn't a PS2 built into every PS3 80gig model.

(Great point I also forgot to mention, so if you're getting a PS3 go quick before that junk comes out)

No problem, just buy new ones. This makes it so that you don't have to send your controller back to MS so they can change your batteries for you.

From what I've heard, the PS3 Controller batteries haven't had any problems (I've never seen any articles on it at least, but I agree, SIXAXIS is no fun for the most part, but it has potential, especially in LAIR with me. Also heard they're resolving to put Rumble back in!)

[Geoff]

Let me come clean in a way that my Counterpart on the Western Shore would hever have believed.

The PS3 sucks.  Blows.  Hurls huge Technicolor Chunks.  I've had mine a month and am sick to death with it.  Here's a few reasons why.

First - Madden 2007.  One of my favorite games on the PS2 platform.  Bought it for the PS3 and guess what???  It's nowhere near the same game.  Graphics are different, controls are backwards, characters are not editable with regard to equipment, numbers or uniforms.  Just freakin' lame; it's literally like they took another game all-together and crow-barred the Madden name onto it.  Madden 2008 is rumoured to be a return to form, but I'm skeptical at best.

Second - it overheats.  You spend 20-30 minutes playing and the unit is putting off enough heat to flash-fry an egg.  Kind of annoying in 98 degree weather.

Third - the games are RIDICULOUSLY expensive.  $69.99 for Fall of Man???  Please!!  I've fed 5 people for less.

Fourth - It's ****ING HUGE!!!!

Fifth (and most importantly) - I don't play games to "compete".  I could give a rat's ass if I can beat the game quickly or even fairly.  I don't play online, I don't want to and I doubt I ever will.  I play my RPG games (Splinter Cell, Legacy of Kain, Tomb Raider, God of War) as a stress reliever, not as some way to prove my machismo or create an urban legend about my prowess.

As such, I cheat like a son-of-a-bitch.  I own every single Cheat Code disc available for the PS2 and I use every one of them.  I walk into every new game I buy armed to the teeth with Unlimited Health, every weapon known to man (or Gods in some cases) and the walkthrough book at the ready.  Like I said, I'm not interested in "playing fair".  **** fair, I just want to play...and kill ****.

PS3 doesn't function with any of the PS2 cheat code discs..............

...........did I mention it doesn't work?

What that means is that I am now forced to face down a charging ****ing Grizzly Bear in "Tomb Raider: Anniversary" with nothing more than a glorified pea shooter cleverly disguised as a 9MM.  Where's my Mother-****ing Golden Shotgun that can take down the T-Rex with a single shot?

I'm a little hyped about this, and it may sound petulant but try to remember a simple fact.  I'm not some young, cyber-space jock who plays these games as a profession.  I'm a 40-year-old Suit who plays games as a pressure release valve for the ridiculously stressful life I lead.  Why do I want these games to be hard?

Anyway...that's my rant.  PS3 can go piss up a rope.  I'm likely going to sell it (along with the Madden 2007 I mistakenly bought and the Madden 2008 that I have on layaway at the local Game Stop) to the first sucker on eBay willing to pay $500 (which by the way is what I paid).  Then I'm going back to my PS2 and staying fat, dumb and happy in my cheat codes and nice, room-temperature console.

Harumph!

[Todd]

In defense of the PS3 it should get better. Next year it does have a ton of good games coming out. I am pretty sure your cheat codes and what not will be back, they've been around forever I am sure they'll make a come back.

As far as Madden, EA always cuts a ton of **** out of games when it laucnhes with a console. You should see Madden 2006 for the 360 when it launched. Yikes! It had a ton of features slashed. I've given up on Madden, considering most of the time you are just paying for badly updated rosters and that years schedule.

[Todd]

I knew Todd would jump in this one
(Actually, did bite the bullet at purchase a Philips 42" 1080p Ambilight LCD this past summer)

Sweet. So I am guessing it doesn't accept 1080p signal through Componanent? That would make for the visual difference between the consoles.

I have a Olevia 32" 720p/1080i LCD set. It is nice, the remote is crap though.

(Great point I also forgot to mention, so if you're getting a PS3 go quick before that junk comes out)

IMO, it is the better way to do it, since they can smooth things over with the games. Plus hopefully it will allow Sony to give the PS3 a price cut that will stick.

From what I've heard, the PS3 Controller batteries haven't had any problems (I've never seen any articles on it at least, but I agree, SIXAXIS is no fun for the most part, but it has potential, especially in LAIR with me. Also heard they're resolving to put Rumble back in!)

Well, there really isn't any problems now. Lithium Ion batteries last longer then normal batters, even the rechargeable kind. I just don't like the idea you have to send it back to Sony for a simple battery replacement. Plus they are Sony batteries so only God knows when they might explode.

As far as controls, I hate the sixaxis because it is a carbon copy of the Dual Shock, which was the worst ergonomically designed controller to ever be invented. I hated the thing when I bought my first Playstation, I avoided them on the PS2 by buying 3rd party controllers not shaped like the Dual Shock.  From reviews of Lair, before it was delayed, they were saying the motion controls sucked badly. Might be why it got delayed.

Honestly, this gen I think I am just going to stick with the 360. Every other gen I've owned most if not all the consoles, and frankly I really don't see anything on the other consoles I really want to waste money on. I wonder how long I'll actually keep to that plan though.

[Archelous]

I knew Todd would jump in this one
(Actually, did bite the bullet at purchase a Philips 42" 1080p Ambilight LCD this past summer)

Sweet. So I am guessing it doesn't accept 1080p signal through Componanent? That would make for the visual difference between the consoles.

I have a Olevia 32" 720p/1080i LCD set. It is nice, the remote is crap though.

Yeah, it definitely wasn't a cheap option, but I got it through wholesale and I love it so far. The only signals I get on Component from it at either 720p on 360 games or 1080i on HDDVD.