Topic: Birgitte

[Genia]

The books almost say so outright.

[Geoff]

I don't know...isn't he usually much older than her?  Though she wasn't spun out normally this time, she was ripped out so you could be right.

Personally, I've got no freakin' clue who any of these people are.  So many new characters got introduced in the latter novels that I just stopped trying to keep up.  I figure there'll be some giant roll call just before (or after) Tarmon Gaidon and I'll be able to connect the dots then.

[Jianna]

Olver is, pending some last minute out-of-left-field change, Gaidal Cain.

In the normal turning of the Wheel, Gaidal Cain is spun out before Birgitte, and already had been.  That's how she always knew roughly when she was going to be reborn.  In this instance, however, she was ripped from TaR during the battle between Nynaeve and Moghedien, way ahead of schedule.  

After being Bonded, she told Elayne that she knew Gaidal Cain was in the world as an infant or young boy.

Also, Gaidal Cain is never an attractive man.  And Olver is always described as ugly.

[The Raven]

Thats who i originally thought but i thought he would probably be too old but Birgette said he had recently been spun out but then again time isnt the same in TAR so recently could have been a couple years.

[eldrene_sedai]

didn't know that olver was gaidal cain...i hope it turns out all right, in the end.

really wish the Creator would dabble his/her (?) fingers in events...The Wheel weaves as the wheel wills, right? what does the Creator do? i mean, other than create? very deism-like isn't it?

[Genia]

Jordan seems to go for a fairl Aristotelian Creator. Hence why he's called "Creator" and not "God", if you me ask. It's a common motif in fantasy; a passive Creator who lets Mortals do the work, and an active malevolent demigod a la Shai'tan. Guy Gabriel Kay does the same thing in his Fionavar Tapestry, Eddings sort of does the same thing in Belgariad, Tolkien...  I suppose it's a sort of consequence of modern deism and secularism to seeing the world as it is.

[Jianna]

Eddings sort of does the same thing in Belgariad

UL wasn't really all that passive.  More like a father with seven sons who didn't always get along.  Sometimes it was just a lot less stressful to close himself off in the study with a good book and a pint, and only emerge when they were in danger of setting the house on fire.  *g*

As for Tolkien... I had to think about that for a minute or two.  It's been a long, long while since I read The Silmarillion.  I remember some sort of Creation myth - some kind of Elvish (I just realized how that looks like "Elvis" after a few drinks) all-God.  By the time the LotR trilogy came along, it was pretty much the collected peoples of Middle Earth (elves, men, dwarves and hobbits) against the really bad, bad guy.  Certainly more passive than UL.  And also definitely forgotten - unlike the WoT's Creator.

[Archelous]

If my Silmarillion memory serves correct (I had to read that thing like 4 times to get a good scope of matters), There was a cool god-like-guy, who got lonely, and created that Valar, which were like demi-gods, and gave them the LOTR world (A-something. I wanna say  Arla, far too hating this laptop to look it up.)

Then there was Melkor and Manwe, the two most powerful, Melkor was bad, Morgoth, blah blah... fast forward. The Valar then decided to create beings called Maia, all of em made some, Melkor made a particular nasty one named Sauron, who escaped the craziness that was the first few ages, then the elves and humans decided to sail across the sea to Middle Earth and Sauron hitched a ride, and I could go all day, but Sauron was basically the mini-boss, while Melkor is trapped away.

[The Raven]

I was doubtful about the Gaidal Cain thing after reading who you though it was and i searched and Gaidal is not Olver. RJ stated that while TAR time may be different it never goes backwards. While more time may pass in TAR less time can not. Olver is too old to be Gaidal Cain.

[Jianna]

I read your post, then searched, too.  

It seems he did say that.  He also said that Olver would have something important to do - more so than just being a red herring.  (I assume he meant that as a reference to Gaidal Cain.)

Another perfectly good theory blown all to heck and back.

Rats.

[Todd]

I kind of remember RJ saying that, but I really didn't feel like looking it up to be sure. lol

I never really thought Olver was Gaidal Cain anyways.

[aknid]

Well first there is no way Oliver could be Gaidal since Gaidal was born back into the world during the story and Oliver was born before the story started. i do think he has been introduced in the story and is a aiel since the only other person other then Eylane to be pregnant in the story is one of the aiel. Furthere more i do see Brigitte meeting up with him at some point since I dont think she will make it through the last battle alive.

[Bob_Dole]

WEll i think it was winters heart where Min had a viewing of birgitte where she said that birgitte will have thousands of adventures more than one can have in a single life time and with an ugly man sometimes older and sometimes younger

[Soynar trestfal]

I like Birgitte, but I agree with Jianna and Todd she has every right to be a bit annoying after all the bond between women works weirdly so all that morning sickness and annoying emotional rollercoaster little miss Pregnant Princess is enjoying are probably bouncing around inside her head too.

As for the whole Olver business I have a suspicion his something important is going to be linked to the Tower of Gengi